Posted by: Robert Gianserra | July 25, 2009

URGENT, UNBELEIVEABLE- Harold Camping will Debate James White this Week

Yes it is true! In this rare ocassion, Camping is coming out of his comfort zone of the Open Forum to debate Mr. James White of Alpha and Omega ministries. Everyone who has been involved in this debate must listen, because here is where the rubber meets the road. I am looking forward with great zeal towards this.

Listen to this two-day, LIVE call-in radio/Internet broadcast TUESDAY, JULY 28th & WEDNESDAY, JULY 29th, 3-4PM Eastern on WNYG-1440AM in New York & Connecticut or listen WORLDWIDE via live-streaming at www.sharpens.org or www.wnygspiritofny.com

DR. JAMES R. WHITE, author of “Dangerous Airwaves: Harold Camping Refuted & Christ’s Church Defended” (see http://www.aomin.org/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=51), and HAROLD CAMPING, founder & president of FAMILY RADIO, will DEBATE: “HAS THE CHURCH AGE ENDED?”

From Dr James White:

We just confirmed that next Tuesday and Wednesday, July 28th and 29th, I will be debating Harold Camping on the Iron Sharpens Iron radio program on the topic of Camping’s teaching that the church has ceased to exist. As some of you may know, Harold Camping has been teaching for years now that the church age has ended; that no one can get saved in the church any longer; that true believers should flee the churches, etc. I wrote my book Dangerous Airwaves in response to Camping’s teachings on this topic. Well, Chris Arnzen has once again found a way to make a debate happen that nobody thought could ever happen. So, for two days next week we will debate this topic. I will defend the biblical position that Christ’s church remains His bride and that Christians are to be faithful in their service to Christ through her, and that Harold Camping’s wild-eyed gymnastics with the text, his use of allegory and numerology, etc., is a gross abuse of inspired Scripture. Make no mistake about it: this will end up being a debate over how you handle the Bible and allow God to speak. As I said in response to Camping years ago in Dangerous Airwaves:

The grammatical-historical method of interpretation is a means of guaranteeing that we are hearing what the text says, not what we wantthe text to say. This is a vitally important point, especially when it comes to the Scriptures. When reading secular texts we are not nearly as tempted to insert a foreign meaning into the words of the author, since it is rare that such a text would be given sufficient importance to warrant the effort. We naturally apply sound rules of interpretation to such documents since we are not at all threatened by theresults. But when it comes to the text of the Bible, much more is at stake. But if we are consistent in our beliefs, and truly want to hear what the Scriptures are saying and not what we want them to say or feel they should say, we need to have a means of reading the text that does not allow us to slipour own thoughts into the text under the guise of interpretation. The Bible needs to say the same thing in each language, in each culture, in each context, or it cannot be the means of communicating the truth to us that Christians believe it to be. The grammatical-historical method allows us to be both honest and consistent with the text of the Bible.

The fundamental reason we must reject allegorical interpretation of the biblical text is really quite simple: it is unverifiable. That is, there is no possible way to determine that the results of using allegorical methodology have anything whatsoever to do with the actual meaning of the text. One man’s allegorical understanding can have no compelling force upon the thinking of another, for that person may well see something completely different in the text. Since the means provided by human language to communicate meaning are by-passed in the allegorical method, there are no “safety nets” to keep one from wandering off into the most fanciful of “interpretations” of the text. Hence, the person who says “the allegorical meaning of this text is such and so” cannot claim the actual authority of the text for his interpretation, for the actual source of the interpretation is not the text itself but the mind of the interpreter. This is why we say there can be no compelling force to one’s allegorical interpretation, for it is merely personal, and if anyone else accepts it, it is because they choose to trust the allegorical interpreter rather than the text itself. Allegorical interpretations can have no more authority than the one proclaiming them.

When applied to the biblical text this methodology is devastating. The authority of the text is destroyed. No allegorical interpreter can honestly say, “The Word of God says,” for in reality, the Word of God has been replaced with the more or less fanciful thoughts of the interpreter himself. The Christian doctrine of inspiration sets the Christian Scriptures apart from all other claimed divine revelations in that Christians believe the Scriptures are God-breathed. This means the written word communicates to us infallibly the very speaking of God in a miraculously personal manner (Matthew 22:31). The authority of the Word is not based upon the interpreter but upon the inspired text itself. The message of the written Word is the same through the course of time. Without this affirmation, the Word becomes a purely subjective document, incapable of communicating divine truth with certainty.

This point cannot be over-emphasized. Allegorical interpretation destroys biblical authority. It replaces the divine message with the imaginations of the interpreter, and as such opens the door wide for every kind of abuse of the text. False teachers, seeking to draw away disciples after themselves (Acts 20:30), utilize such means to release themselves from the unchanging standards of Gods Word and insert, under the guise of thus sayeth the Lord, their own pet doctrines and teachings. The Christian who is untaught and unstable, a novice in the Word, can easily be taken in by such a teacher who exudes confidence and often hides the false teachings behind a veneer of self-professed orthodoxy. So when we defend proper exegetical methodology, we are not merely arguing about tangential issues, we are, in reality, defending the very authority of the Word, and its ability to speak with clarity and force to each generation and in every place.


Responses

  1. But think of all the money he’s bringing in. LOL

    I was listening tonight, and someone called in and asked if all the people who have emptied their life savings, transferring everything they own to “Family Radio” will be able to get their money back on October 22, … Mr. Camping became abrupt, cutting the caller off, then pretended to not understand what the caller was trying to say.

    It made me queasy. This guy is creepy.

  2. [...] [...]

  3. Because of the influence of harold camping via F.R. my husband has been braibwashed for over 15 years on all this untruth. If you read the Bible and prove scripture with scripture it only reinforces how much in error H.C. is. I”m very concerned for my husband and will pray that people will have their eyes opened and go back to worshiping in good solid Bible believing churches. Thank you, J.D

  4. Day 2 of the “so called debate”. Yesterday was much better. There was interaction and some discourse. But not today. Camping (after considering yesterdays situation) simply expounded his teaching from “We are Almost There”. He ignored Dr. White, and simply did a monologue like he does on Family Radio. James White was right. Mr. Camping is his own authority and is not open to correction. I know a pastor who met with him personally and heard the same report. Camping only hears what he want to hear and says what he wants to say. HE has equated his teachings with the authority of scriptures. What really disturbed me today was that Camping’s parting words were- “do your arithmetic!” Where is that in the bible? Where is the precedent of numerology in the bible? Where is there a rule in the bible that instructs us to take numbers, assign meanings, and then multiply or divide them until we reach a desired figure? There are none. Camping’s whole system falls apart on his own standards. As Mr. White so clearly said, “Mr. Camping is the final authority as to what the bible means and what it doesn’t mean.” To all you die hard Campingites-

    Ps. 118: 8 t is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.

  5. Okay- the technical difficulties were dealt with and although Camping wanted to reschedule he was able to debate. Man- After the way he minced up Hebrews 8 and 10 and then said that 1 Tim. 3:15 is a “trap set by God” should be an alarm to every campingite out there. Furthermore- In mincing up Hebrew 8, Camping says that the New Covenant has come to an end. That is ludicrous. And to say that God has set a trap in the bible is blasphemy. God doesn’t set traps, Ja. 1:13 or God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one. And then to say that no one really understood the real meaning of the bible until now? Camping has inserted himself once again as the infallible interpreter of scripture. KUDOS to JAMES WHITE- AWESOME JOB!!!!

  6. Listening to the debate- 30 min. went by,- no debate. Is it a surprise that Camping somehow couldn’t hear anyone? What a joke.

  7. Not everyone at FR were sheople. The other 2 trustees of FR, Garbriel Ortero and Richard Van Dyke, who both served with Camping for years, confronted him and tried to stop the insanity. But Camping used his power and bullying tactics to force them both out of the station. So yes now everyone at FR is a drone, but there were those who tried.

  8. Thank you for standing up for the truth of God’s word. Harold Camping is a wizard. He lures people into listening to his station by soothing hymns; the hymns themselves are excellent; also the Bible readings. How wonderful to hear the word of God! However, that is how the Wizard of Oakland gets people. He mixes God’s word with his (Harold’s) lies.

    People too lazy to think for themselves and read God’s word are mesmerised by the music, the Bible, etc. and he then is able to brainwash people into believing his wicked ideas. Like there is no hell, “belief is a work” and the date of the Rapture. And what about when he says that some people are saved but don’t know it? When you get saved, you know you are. You meet God. You don’t have to keep pleading for mercy, as Harold says you should.

    If Harold redid his mad mathematics and decided that 31 December 2012 was the correct date, would his followers follow him? Or would they stick to the 21 May date? Have they figured this out for themselves to confirm what he says?

    Are they good Bereans? (Acts 17.11) Even Paul was glad that those noble Bereans searched the scriptures daily to check out whether Paul was telling the truth.

    Shame on those who work for Family Radio and go along with the whims of this wizard, this human form of Chicken Little. I can hear it now: Harold Camping Announces the Sky will Fall next week-end. And everyone at FR and all the True FR Believers will head for the nearest shelter.

    If by some coincidence the Lord was really returning on 21 May 2011, I am most certain He has already changed the date


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