2 Peter 3:16 “There are some things in them (the letters of Paul in the NT) that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.”
Harold Camping is the president and heretic in chief at Family Radio International. For those of you who have the privilege of getting Family Radio broadcast in your area,you probably have mixed feelings. While driving your car, or working on some project, it may be hard to find a station to listen to that is spiritually edifying. Then comes Family Radio. Hymns, Bible reading, prayer, etc. It seems like an oasis of spiritual refreshment in the middle of an airwaves desert. Then comes Harold Camping in a bible study hour. Then his Open Forum. And what do you hear? The world is coming to an end May 21, 2011. According to an advertisement on Family Radio, Harold Camping has figured out the time of the Lord’s coming with “great accuracy” to the day, year, and hour. Sound crazy? It is.
Harold Camping is mad (out of his mind). Not only is he mad, but he a false prophet, and guilty of twisting the word of God. This is nothing new for him either. It all started back in the early 90’s when he believed the world would end in 1994, and made a prediction for the second coming of Jesus. As expected 1994 came and went and Jesus did not return. After being humiliated most people thought he would repent and admit he was wrong. But instead, Harry had a new plan. In his own words, he got, “new information from the bible” revealing to him that what really happened in 1994 was that the church age had come to an end. The corporate church was no longer to exist. The ordinances of baptism and the Lord’s Supper were to cease, pastors to resign, and churches to fold. According to Camping, God had pronounced judgment on the church for infidelity and therefore any true Christian must heed the warning to “flee the church or come under the wrath of God.” All of this is backed up by a hermeneutic that is based on an allegorical interpretation to all of scripture. As a result, Camping can essentially make the bible say what ever he wants. All of his interpretation of scripture now was pointing to the end of the church age. It gets worse.
In the last year or so, Camping has went out on a limb and declared that this time he got it right. Jesus is coming back on May 21, 2011. On that day true Christian will be raptured and everyone else will come under the judgment of Christ for a period of five months, ending on October 21, 2011. Once this one got some traction he went even further. According to more “new information” he is getting from the bible, the doctrine of Hell is a false doctrine. It was devised by man for the purpose of intimidating people. According to Camping, when an unbeliever dies, he will face God on judgment day and then be annihilated (or cease to exist).
Harold Camping has made some audacious and bold claims. While most Evangelicals do not take him seriously, there are enough who do. Sadly Harold Camping has “upset the faith of some”( 2 Tim. 2:18) back in 1994 by misleading people to believe that Christ was returning. He has continued to do this by misleading people to leave the local church which is “The pillar and buttress of truth” 1 Tim. 3:15, and is again misleading people to think the end of the world is coming in 2011.
Consequently I felt led to post a few articles exposing Camping for who he is. He is not a brother, nor a teacher of the word. He is a false teacher and is guilty of misleading many of God’s people. The bible tells us in Matt 18:6 “whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.” Today is just an introduction to the madness and insanity of Harold Camping. I do pray and hope that he will repent before he dies as he is an old man. And to be fair he was a sound teacher for many years before he went down this road. Nonetheless he will be accountable to God for twisting scriptures and will face judgment unless he repents.
Next article- “Harry’s Hermeneutic”
Here’s the latest double talke of Mr. Camping on today’s family radio program:
Today, 10/22/09 at 6:30 pm, a gentleman called in to the Family Radio program and asked Mr. Camping the following question live on the air.
“Mr. Camping, what work must someone do in order to be saved?”
Camping’s response:
10/22/09 @6:31 pm
#1
“Our salvation is based upon the MERCY of God, alone, nothing else”, all you can do is cry out for mercy to God and have an intense desire to study the bible, then may be, just may be, God will save you.”
10/22/09 @ 6:32 pm
#2
“However with this in mind, if we can do any work whatsoever in an attempt to be saved, it means that we are ABSOLUTELY NOT saved.”
followed by:
10/22/09 @6:33 pm
#3
“If we attempt to make any contribution to God’s plan of salvation to be saved, it shows that we are NOT saved.”
Now, notice the stark contridictions here. Camping says that no one can do anything to be saved, but in order to qualify for salvation according to him, you must do the WORK of intensely studying the bible and crying out to God for mercy. The word WORK is obviously a “VERB”, it conveys action. Camping contradicts himself two times in a row, back to back. First he says that one must cry out for mercy, which is a WORK, then he says that one must demonstrate an intense desire to study the bible, which is DEFINITELY WORK, hands down. Both of these statments are bluntly contradictory to his opening statement in response to the caller’s initial question.
Now get this,
The same caller then asked Mr. Camping how he came into the “revelation” of 5/21/11 being the date of the Rapture, and end of the world?
Mr. Camping said the following in response to this same caller’s second question:
10/22/09 @ 6:36 pm
Mr. Camping
“The way we know that 5/21/11 is the correct date for the Rapture is that WE (i.e. referring to himself and others at Family Radio’s Open Forum program) DID THE WORK OF DEVELOPING THE TIME LINE FOR THE END OF THE WORLD which can be traced back to the Great Flood in Noah’s day, then going forward in time to 1994 which was the year that the church age ended, God began to open our understanding more and more about end times, and through our (i.e. himself and others at Family Radio) deligent study of God’s Word over the years, we now known only for about the past year and a half, that the Rapture and God’s judgement upon the world will occur on 5/21/11, and the world will end exactly 5 months later on 10/21/11.
Now, notice here in this elaborate statement of Mr. Camping, that he ONCE AGAIN contradicts himself by openly stating that he and others at Family Radio did the WORK of developing the time line for the Rapture, but yet, just minutes earlier, he told the caller that if anyone does any WORK to be saved, it means that they are “ABSOLUTELY NOT SAVED”, so by his own self-contradistory confession, Camping himself is NOT saved, for mere fact that he said that he did the WORK of developing the time line leading to 5/21/11, and he has already openly stated on the air, that unless a person accepts this date (5/21/11) as the date of the rapture and end of the world, which HE CLAIMS comes from God’s revealed Word, it means that they are NOT save, and will go into destruction with the rest of the unbelieving world.
NOW, DOES EVEYONE HERE SEE WHAT I’VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT WITH MR. CAMPING’S NARCISSISTIC PERSONALITY DISORDER, WHICH IS STEEPED IN ALL KINDS OF SELF-CONTRADICTION!
Keep in mind also, that according to Mr. Camping, even if you believe 5/21/11 as the date of the Rapture, it still does not mean that you are saved, because God only knows who will and will not be saved, and you have nothing to do with that, all you can do is cry out for mercy to God (WORK)and keep watching for 5/21/11 (WORK).
What a CRAZY, CRAZY DISCOMBOBULATED GOSPEL THIS GUY PREACHERS, how deceived he is with all his delusional, numerological, and allogorical based doctrine.
OH, here’s one more thing Camping said before the radio program ended for the evening which is in direct contradiction to God’s Word:
He told another caller that quote-
“if anyone says that they have confessed Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, or claim to have Faith in Christ for salvation, it ABSOLUTELY SHOWS THAT THEY ARE NOT SAVED.”
Notice how the thief on the cross just seconds before his last breath confessed Jesus as “Lord” when he said, quote, “Lord, remember me when you come into your Kingdom.”, and Jesus replied, “in this day, you will be with me in Paradise.” READ YOUR BIBLE. Gee, according to Mr. Camping, the thief on the cross who confessed Jesus as Lord with his last breath was DEFINITELY NOT SAVED, despite what Jesus told him point blank.
Poor, poor Campingites…following a highly self-contradictory, narcissistic, delusional man, who is sincerely deceived by unseen forces, instead of having 100% Faith in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ, and His completed work on Calvary for the atonement of sins.
By: Ron K on October 23, 2009
at 2:17 am
I just learned of the Camping-White debate, and after i downloaded it (until my search, I didn’t know when it had occurred – years or months ago), I googled to get a little more info about it. Having done that, I’ve browsed some of the links commenting on it (still haven’t listened to the debate yet – some other night!) …..
… and reading through many of the points & counterpoints here, much of it strikes me as more of the same – Might as well be the 1st century all over again, with everyone saying, “I follow Apollos”, “I follow Paul”, etc … it might as well be “I follow …. Harold or R.C. or Chuck Smith, or Mr. Toad…
Christians LOVE to wrestle with each other over the minor doctrinal issues (especially guys). And yes, I am saying that most of what you all are bickering about is minor.
I have listened to Harold & Family Radio somewhat regularly for the last 20 years, when I moved to San Diego in the fall of 1989, and I have NEVER ONCE heard him express any truly heretical beliefs about God – Father God, Christ, or the Holy Spirit , or about the primary tenants of salvation by grace through faith in Christ, or the authority and sufficiency of Scripture. He teaches its ALL of grace – Which is alot more thatn I can say about all the free-willers in the churches …. and any of the free-willers in the Church (true believers hopefully distinguish between the churches and the Church, the true body of Christ).
I don’t swallow all of what Mr. Camping says, whether its about the end times & Christ’s return, or staying in or leaving the churches, or involvement in society such as politics, or everything he says about marriage, or the Sabbath, …. or you name it. RE his May 2011 predictions, I have to say I don’t know, but I’ll take it into consideration. Yes he says things I don’t exactly like to hear him say. Again, mostly because I just don’t know but I see many of these as being minors, not majors.
But when it comes to the major teachings of scripture, he is close enough to put to shame many or most pastors and teachers of the Word of God.
So cut the old fellow some slack all you anti-Campingites & anti-FamilyRadio-ites ….. and all you Campingites & FamilyRadio-ites, chill out and don’t treat Camping like Joseph Smith …. or one of the apostles, cause he’s neither. He’s a godly, genuine believer who’s trying to serve the Lord in the best way he can, warning both believer & unbeliever of judgement day – even when he occasionally gets out of balance and upsets those who are snapping at his heels filtering every word he says looking to prove him wrong … and those who do so are wasting precious time doing so.
No, I am not a compromiser of truth …. but I do my best to rightly divide the Word of Truth from the light from the Holy Spirit guiding me … even though I make as many mistakes as the next guy …. well, not THAT many!
But God be praised, I thank Him that He is sovereign and causes all things to work together for good, to those called according to His purposes. Us little ol’ humans aren’t going to mess up God’s plans for history and for the elect; even if we have a world-wide voice.
Grant Harold as much grace as you do the free-will preacher or other radio&TV-voices who give way too much credit for salvation to the human will …. despite the overwhelming preponderance of Scriptural evidence to the contrary.
By: Willis on September 9, 2009
at 2:23 am
I agree all they do is parot harold Camping. I have a family member who is deeply entrenched in his tachings. We got into a disscusion and he won’t even listen to anything I say unless it comes from harold himself. I asked him to turn off family radio and my family member said with such…..raw emotion I will NEVER turn him off. That was enough for me…..I truly beleive that Family Radio is a cult and his followers are going down the road of hell with him….oh wait I forgot Harold doesn’t believe in hell anymore…I guess it will be annialtion now.
I just pray that the church gets back to the Bible. Verse by verse teaching, hell, sin, the second coming, righrtouseness, and so forth. We are to busy talking about nonsense and I feel the church is trying to conform to the world instead of Jesus Christ. We look to men and those that we feel know more about the Bible than we do. Well if we study the word and ask God to show us HE will. We don’t some secret spiritual code. The Bible contains books on law, poetry, history, stories. and to adress the person who said we don’t need to know the history or who wrote it and so forth. Yes we do!!!! We need to understand who wrote it for who, where and what this means to us. We can’t just throw out the history of the Bible. remember it was written a long time ago before us. We have to understand the whole chapter of the bible we can’t take a verse and run with it. That is what Harold does he takes verses like 2peter 4:17 and say this is the church but if you read the beginning of the chapter he is talking to us being persecuted and how we should handle it and to remember that God judges us first and He discplines us like children.
I have become so sad at the state of church. yes there is a lot of corruption and alot of churches are dead but to make a blanket statement that they are ALL dead??? God is everywhere He doesn’t leave the churches if he can convcit and save out of cults like Buddah, Isalm, Mormons,etc than he can save someone out of a suppose dead church.
I pray for all of you and JUST GET BACK TO THE BIBLE AND TEST OUT ALL OF THESE MEN.
WE SHOULD KNOW THEM BY THEIR FRUITS
COME LORD JESUS COME QUICKLY
By: Psalm139 on August 6, 2009
at 10:18 am
Amen, Amen.
By: Robert Gianserra on August 6, 2009
at 10:29 am
Day 1 of the exchange between Dr. White and Mr. Camping are now across the airwaves. I’m looking forward to Day 2.
By: Darryl T on July 28, 2009
at 7:54 pm
Darryl, Re: your post of July 24, 11:36 PM, I want to respond but am out of pocket this weekend and until Sunday night or Monday. I’ll get back to you though. Thanks for your thoughtful post, and there are some critical issues I would like to address.
–mw
By: m w on July 25, 2009
at 4:00 pm
I expect all of those who embrace this teaching to disavow any belief in God or the Bible on May 22, 2011.
It gives me no joy to make the above statement. I do not want anybody to apostatise. But what other option is there for somebody who unequivocally declares this May 21, 2011 nonsense to be from God and the Bible???
If God could lie, How could He be trusted? How, then, could anyone trust anything in the Bible?
I, on the other hand, place NO TRUST in Harold Camping’s position and I urge anyone reading this to place NO TRUST WHATSOEVER in that position.
Following Mr. Camping is a sure recipe for confusion, chaos and despair. The God-haters will dance with glee if God’s people do not rise up to denounce Camping’s folly.
By: m w on July 22, 2009
at 6:23 pm
Why would you expect all those who embrace Harold Camping’s teaching to ultimately disavow any belief in God or the Bible? Your statement is quite “Conclusionary” and it contains no substance or rebuttal as to what he teaches. It would seem to me you are looking at the “date”, rather than the teachings to arrive at that date. It’s your prerogative to have no trust in what is taught, but have you studied, read or heard what he teaches?
As Christians, aren’t we supposed to “try the spirits”? (1 John 4: 1) And isn’t ALL Scripture given for Doctrine, Reproof, Correction and Instruction? (2 Timothy 3: 16) And knowing this that no prophesy of Scripture is given to any private interpretation (2 Peter 1: 20), why would you not seek the Scripture “itself” for Truth (or Lies) to debunk what Mr. Camping’s teaches?
Thus far, I haven’t found any fault in what he teaches. In fact, I’m finding more Truth as I read the Scriptures and as I listen to the teachings of Mr. Camping. He seems to be very ‘OPEN” for rebuttal on his “Open Forum” Program. If it were so “wrong” to teach what he teaches, why wouldn’t Christians just “tune him out” and stop supporting Family Radio? Afterall, Family Radio is a “non-commercial” radio station who is supported by it’s listeners. That’s a testimony in itself. Obviously, there must be some Truth to what is being taught, especially for a “religious radio station”, for most religious stations need commercial support in order to survive. I’m sure God would see to it to dismantle Mr. Camping and Family Radio if the teachings of Mr. Camping were so wrong. Instead, it seems to be growing in listenership…maybe because the signs of Matthew 24 seem to be taking place in today’s world scene.
As to your comments on the “Dancing God-Haters”, they’ve been around forever. The Scriptures give plenty of examples of these people. (Psalm 14: 1, Psalm 53: 1, 2 Peter 3: 3 to name a few) In fact, Christians are to expect to be treated with contempt and scorn for following Christ Jesus. But God has made these people for purposes. (Proverbs 16: 4, Matthew 5: 10-12, Matthew 10: 22, Matthew 24: 9, Mark 13: 13 to name a few)
Not that you are guilty of committing this, but what perplexes me is that some “so-called” Christians act like the “God-Haters” with their venomous attacks on this man. It would seem to me that “we” Christians should enter into sober discourses when discussing these matters, especially on the internet for the world to read and more importantly, because some of us are God’s Elect.
By: Darryl T on July 23, 2009
at 1:11 am
Darryl, thanks for your reply.
It was not at all my intent to rebutt the many errors Mr. Camping is teaching. There are many others more qualified than I am who have done that. But, yes, I have studied the scriptures and continue to do so. I have pastored for about twenty-three years and taught various disciplines in my second language (Portuguese) for most of the past 15 years, so I do read and study. Not that I claim to be a great authority; others stand head and shoulders above me. You should read them. They could save you much distress and I say that sincerely and humbly before God and anybody reading this discussion.
Yes, my post focused on the date-setting aspect of Campings folly, because I am painfully aware that date-setters have caused untold confusion, and loss of faith by their foolish and bull-headed insistence that they have some inside knowledge that neither the angels nor the Lord Jesus Himself have. I wonder why such people even believe in the rapture in the first place, if they refuse to believe what Christ said about it — that no man… knows the day nor the hour. That fact should immediately end all speculation, but no….
All I am saying is that IF Camping, et al, truly — I mean truly — believe the date, May 21, 2011 is from God and the Bible, and, lo, they come to May 22; how will they not conclude that God and the Bible lead them astray? History of similar “movements” reveals the spiritual wreckage of poor souls who have lost all faith because they really believed some “leader” was of God when he was not. This is not a game! It will not be possible to reverse all the damage done if (when) Sunday arrives on the 22nd and Mr. Camping says, “Well, I guess I was wrong. Oh well…”
You disappoint me, Darryl, when, on the one hand you exhort me to seek the scripture “itself” for truth and then you go on to defend Family Radio — NOT on the basis of Truth or error, but on the basis of — in your view — apparent wide listenership and that the finances coming in somehow validates the teaching. By the way their actual listenership has suffered greatly over the last number of years. All reputable churches, pastors and acclaimed preachers formerly heard on FR have left in sorrow and disgust, refusing to allow their ministries to continue to be identified with FR. (It is my understanding that, at one point some years ago, Camping even caused that any references to “the Church” be edited out of preaching tapes sent to FR before they were broadcast. A big lapse of honesty and ethics, wouldn’t you agree, Darryl? But that’s a whole other issue.) Camping holds the censorship button on FR.
And, as if that weren’t enough, then you say something like “Wouldn’t God dismantle” (Family Radio) if the teachings were so wrong? Let me ask you something, Darryl, and I want to be kind, but has God — up to this very hour — “dismantled” Budhism, Hinduism, Islam, or Mormonism (They flourish, Darryl!) or the error that is the “Jehovah’s Witnesses? I tell you, their time is coming! The fact that these religions exist and make big gains has nothing at all to do with their supposed “truth”.
Maybe you will think this is a “venomous attack”, Darryl. It is not. I grieve, I weep over the hundreds (thousands?) of dear deluded souls who fall for this garbage coming out of F. Radio. I also pray for them.
By: m w on July 24, 2009
at 3:18 am
Hello m w,
Apparently, you haven’t read my earlier posts when this website first came out on the net. If you did, you’d see where I’m coming from and why I support what Harold Camping teaches regarding the Churches. Let me explain…
I have been saved for 26 years now. My Salvation was very radical and it was a very life changing experience for me; which is the Biblical description of what happens when the Lord saves someone. I had absolutely nothing to do with it. It was ALL the Lord. Nor did a local Church have anything to do with my Salvation; for I was saved from the Word of God being taught over the radio after a Christian (whom I didn’t know, but just became acquainted with) advised me to listen to as I drove.
Back then, I lived my life as a “heathen”. I was selfish in my personal pursuits. I rarely thought about God in my daily living, even though I kinda knew “something” was out there. But my thoughts of God, for the most part, were just passing thoughts.
But God saved me. I didn’t deserve it. I wasn’t planning on it. I wasn’t even thinking about it. He just saved me and my life hasn’t been the same since. I “died” one summer evening back in 1983. (2 Corinthians 5: 11-21)Truthfully, I don’t even remember the date and nor do I care to know. It just happened.
I remember how “clean” I felt. I remember that “First-Love” Love which I had for Jesus. It was wonderful. After my Salvation, I felt like a fish out of water. I went back to the person who told me about the radio station. He told me of a “Home Church” which would help me to learn. I attended and I was baptised. However, I didn’t stay. As I began to tell my friends and family what had happened to me, many abandoned me. A few told me of the Churches which they attended. I started attending some of these Churches. I eventually became involved in one of the ministries of a certain Church. It was great, but I was a lay-person who didn’t see what took place “behind the scenes”. I just wanted to serve God, worship Him and to grow in Christ and die to myself.
As time went on, I was asked to serve in the capacity of Trustee in this certain Church in 2004. That’s when everything changed for me. I realized that the World and Satan was ruling the Church. The pastor was a dictator, not a servant. There was infighting and worldly ambitions. There is much more to say, but I’ll leave it at that.
Needless to say, I resigned as Trustee and as a member of this certain Church. I was disillusioned and confused. I attempted to find another Church, but because my eyes were now opened to what happens behind the scenes, I found them to be the same in structure and organization…none of which is Biblical.
Now to Harold Camping…
In November, I lost everything due to the crash in the economy. I was a business owner who attempted to merge my business with another in order to survive. It failed. God allowed it to fail. I don’t blame him for it was God’s business in the first place.
Anyway, I was eligible for unemployment. During this time I began to study the economy and macroeconomics. I wanted to “understand” what has happened to our economy to make this happen. Needless to say, I have come to a Final Conclusion that the Economy will never recover based on it’s structure. Now that’s a disturbing thing to think about, but as a Christian, I know that God is in control of all things. My final conclusion on the economy came as I viewed Chris Martenson’s “Crash Course” on the internet.
As I came to this Conclusion, I began to seek God in prayer as to what He may be doing. I took notice of the Iranian and Israeli tensions. I took notice of China and Russia. I took notice of our involvement in Iraq and Afganistan. I took notice of the corruption in Politics and in Washington. Many things were so out-of-kilter and anti-God. It seemed the “Stage” was being set.
I began to do a search on the internet to seek some information. Needless to say, none of the Churches were talking about it. I tried to share the information on the economy with some of my “Pastor Friends”, but it seemed like their eyes were blinded. They didn’t want to address it. Then, I came across Family Radio’s website. I read “We Are Almost There”. I was shocked to say the least to read what I was reading. My first instinct was to say to myself “No one knows the date or the hour”. But then I began to study it to see if there was any Truth to this. I’ve read it 3 times. I still have some questions on the numerology, but I do think this will happen.
Now to respond to you…
First, I noticed you are a Pastor. With that said, (and I don’t wish to be insulting) you have a vested interest in the Church. It is your livelihood. Putting that aside, a “Scriptual” rebuttal to Mr. Camping’s teachings should be what you, as a Pastor, should be undertaking. It is YOUR job to point out error. But as I said in earlier posts, the leaders of the Churches are unwilling to “clean” their own houses. And please don’t tell me that the Churches haven’t gone astray from the Bible. I don’t wish to point out examples. Dirty laundry is dirty laundry. There are plenty of heretics on TV and in the mega-churches.
Secondly, I looked up on the internet the “date-setters” of the past. There were hundreds of them. I read their predictions and what drove them to set these dates. Most had a Messianic Complex as Cult Leaders. Some were predicting dates due to the historical calamity of their time. Some were into numerology. Some were into aliens. Etc. Etc. Etc. But I did notice that none were about the Bible….and ONLY the Bible. This where the teachings of Harold Camping differs from the other date-setters. Look for yourself.
Thirdly, I’m sorry I disappoint you. But, mw, you also disappoint me. You, as a Pastor, were probably taught in Seminary to approach the Scripture Hermeneutically. In other words, the interpretative methods of Scripture are skewed by the “Books of Men”, Church Dogma and Church Doctrines. (Many of which differ from Seminary to Seminary) What Harold Camping teaches is that Scripture interprets “itself” based on the words which God wrote through Holy men in the “Original Text”. In other words, compare Scripture with Scripture or “Harmonizing” the Scripture is the proper way to study and interpret what God is saying. We can also discover God’s Timeline as to certain events which took place in the Bible. As to the “dates” he teaches and how he arrives at these dates, remember that when the Scripture was written, the events which happened were based upon the Biblical or Hebrew Calandar….not the Gregorian Calendar we are currently under. The dates are arrive at when the Gregorian Calendar is placed over the Biblical Calendar. Look at the earlier post by “viewer:, I believe. Very informative.
Fourthly, you say that Harold Camping holds the censorship button for Family Radio. Well, he is the President and CEO of the station. Isn’t he? Don Crawford from the Crawford Broadcasting Network also holds the censorship button for the stations he owns. JW’s and Mormons don’t have any programs on his stations…and rightly so. I don’t find that a lapse of honesty and ethics. I do find that in many of the Churches though. Yet, nothing is made of it. Churches are ruled by Governances of their Denominations…and to most it’s about membership and money, rather than sound Spiritual Leadership based on the Bible. Believe me, I’ve experienced it first-hand.
Fifthly, you bring up other Religions and how they are flourishing. Let me ask you…where do they come from, if the God of Judeo-Christian People is the only True God? Jesus said “I am the way, the truth and the life: o man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” Now either man or satan created these religions. Right? Because if there are “other ways” to God, other than Jesus….then we’d be calling Jesus a Liar. And “who” wants to make Jesus out to be a Liar?
God is bigger and greater than all of this. He is bigger and greater than all the religions and men, including Harold Camping. However, to simply discount what Mr. Camping teaches without carefully and objectively analyzing the Scripture for Truth or Error (because it goes “against” what is being taught in the “current” Churches), should be considered guileless to the student of the Scripture. The Holy Spirit opens the Heart, the eyes and the ears.
By: Darryl T on July 24, 2009
at 11:36 pm
Hey Daryll- I am sorry to hear the afflictions you have suffered this past year. I will be sure to pray for you and that the Lord will provide for you and your family according to his riches and grace. I am very blessed by your testimony as well. I can relate to the blessing of coming to faith in Christ>God had delivered me from a life of misery, despair and rebellion. What I am concerned for you is that you are basing alot of your beliefs in experiences. I had awful experiences in the church, and so has many believers. But that is not evidence to say God is done. Look at the church of Corinth? Or what about the seven churches of Asia Minor? The NT is replete with examples of churches with problems. Why? Because the church is made up of imperfect sinners. I have also seen a lot of good things happen in the churches. I have seen many authentic conversions (since Camping said the church age ended) in the church- to the glory and praise of God. Camping will say that they are all false conversions. How could he if he never met them? I am saddened by this system of teaching because there are many well meaning people like yourself that have genuine concerns but have not considered that Camping may be wrong in his teachings. To say that all people converted in local churches in the last 20 years are false converts comes close to blaspheming the Holy Spirit. And that is dangerous.
By: Robert Gianserra on July 25, 2009
at 3:48 pm
I am really confused by all this May 21, 2011 and 2012 predictions. I am interested in prophecy and as I understand it those who read the Revelation to John are blessed. I think this is true of any book in the Bible, but Revelation may be very special is this regard. It just seems that Camping has been proved wrong (?) before, although he doesn’t think so. The true prophets of God were never wrong. Maybe eveyone is twisting words just to make money, the friggin’ lot of them. I am very disgusted with most every pastor, Rev. or self-proclaimed prophets, they are all corrupt! Oh heck, why am I even wasting my words, they don’t mean a darn thing! Sorry, it makes me angry and I get frustrated too. May somehow the Truth of Jesus Christ win out over all this confusion, Satans work. Please come soon Lord Jesus.
By: triggerfish on July 19, 2009
at 12:16 am
Camping is into pagan numerology. He says the holy spirit is no longer in the church which is a blaspheme of the holy spirit – the worst sin – Who fills the food pantries – has many millions dedicating their lives – heals at healing masses – visits the sick and helps the poor – not Harold Camping! The bible is not a series of numbers, it is the living word of Jesus in the new testament – 3×17x5 – Campings magic formula – does that sound like the transcendent truth? – His teaching is a terrible distraction to anyone interested in the truth – He says the prophets spoke in parables, so they were stoned and put to death because people did not understand their message? Canping does not embody the holy spirit or know anything about it. Camping also states that when the prophets were talking about the Jews leaving Egypt, God was actually saying to future generations to leave the church – what a stretch and twist of the bible! He also proudly states that a “Wise man will know time and judgement” and enters into the counting of days and foreboding analysis of God’s judgement, when the bible is really referring to how and when a wise man will act. He discounts what Jesus said saying it does not apply now that the “Church Age” is over and advising to compare new and old testament against each other – like comparing the appetizer with the main course!
By: Scott Jennings on July 11, 2009
at 11:09 pm
Not being near my bible right now these Scriptures come to mind:
“Unto Him[Christ] be glory IN the church throughout ALL ages world without end.” Eph.3:21
“I will be building up[Gk.]my church and the gates of hell shall NOT prevail against it[the church."]Matt.16:18
“And lo, I am with you ALWAYS even until the END of the age.”Matt 28
In the last days SOME[not all]shall depart from the faith[the church which is the pillar and ground of the truth] giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons…”Paul to Timonthy lTimothy 4:1
Acts 20 says Christ ‘gave His blood for the church’
‘The church which is the pillar and ground of the truth.’ Paul to Timothy
‘No human being knows the day or hour’-Not even angels know!!!Except Harold!
‘It is NOT for you to know the times and seasons’…of His coming-not even the age or ‘epoch’ will be known as per the Greek words here. These together mean in Greek in what century or set of 1,000 years.So we have day and hour,epochs or ages i.e.what year or century or any set of 1,000 years.Thos covers it-no one knows-no one all predications will fail for in ’such an hour as you think NOT I will come.’
It is a supernatural blindness as He will come ‘like a thief in the night.’
By: Dr.H.Davis on September 3, 2009
at 12:16 am
Yes. The Scriptures you’ve posted deals with The INVISIBLE Church which God continues to build. Certainly NOT the corrupt and worldly Churches that exist today whereby they preach Properity Doctrines and “Do-It-Yourself” Salvations.
Much can be said on the Scriptures you posted. Seducing Spirits? Could that mean the Speaking in Tongues Movement? Just an observation.
This is so coincidental. This morning I was listening to secular talk radio (usually politics). The topic was how hypocritical the Catholic Church was to enshrine Senator Edward Kennedy as a TRUE Catholic. Other examples were discussed such as declining Church Membership and how God is being “kicked out” of our daily lives. Yet, the CHURCH does nothing about it. So Sad…but the Sign of the Times, I guess.
The “Supernatural Blindness” you refer to with the Thief in the Night Scripture of 1 Thessalonians 5: 1-11 has it’s own interprutation. If you read the whole passage, it really doesn’t look good for the “complacent” Church-going Christian.
A “Thief”, in Scripture, is one who steals, kills and destroys.
Those who say “Peace and Safety” will be destroyed and they won’t escape judgment.
The Thief shall overtake those who are in darkness. Those in darkness don’t “watch” for the Lord’s return, but “rest” in their Churches Confessions. As Keith Green sang, they are asleep in the Light.
Until you can read the Hearts of Men to see if they are truly Saved, then Salvation is strictly God’s Business. Only He who can know the Heart of a man can know who is saved and who is not. Thus, the INVISIBLE Church God continues to build and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it. And as the City of Ninaveh repented of their sins, the Churches which exist today on Earth should repent of their sins.
Will they? I don’t think so….Why? Pride and Complacency…
By: Darryl T on September 3, 2009
at 6:08 pm
Quick thing Daryll. When the scripture says that Jesus will come “like a thief in the night” has no relationship to satan. It is obvious that the phrase is a metaphor to describe the suddenness of Christ’s coming. CF Luke 12:41-48. The whole point is that we as believers would be ready at any time for Christ’s return. His return will be as suddenly and unexpected as sudden and unexpected a thief breaks in your home. The moral of the story is that because none of us know the exact time of Christ’s return we must be ready every day. To say compare the “thief” with John 10:10 is a gross misinterpreting of the text.
And just a quick question. If “we” cannot truly know that people are saved to disprove Campings theory that no one can be saved in the church anymore, how can “you” truly know that people are not saved in the church? Can Campingites read the hearts of men? Your right- let’s leave salvation up to God. As far as I am concerned there are “many” in the church who are false converts, and there are “few” in the church who are God’s elect. The reason why I know that is because scripture teaches it. “Many are called but few are chosen” God’s church is invincible- but is also the church militant. And until Christ returns- the church must continue her struggle against sin, the world and the the devil. And I am glad to be part of the church militant which will one day be the church victorious.
As for me- “My faith has found a resting place, Not in device nor creed;
I trust the Ever-living One, His wounds for me shall plead. I need no other argument,
I need no other plea; It is enough that Jesus died, And that He died for me.”
By: Robert Gianserra on September 3, 2009
at 8:43 pm
By the way Daryll, why do you keep responding to the same post? Did you read my article on Has the Church Age Ended? Have you thoughtfully and independently considered the possibility Camping is wrong?
By: Robert Gianserra on September 3, 2009
at 8:49 pm
Hello Robert,
Prov. 18:2 ¶ A fool hath no delight in understanding, but that his heart may discover itself.
I’m sure you added Proverbs 18:2 as an additional accusation against me, to go with “slanderer”. So be it. I confess I stand guilty of slandering Ed Moore d/b/a Northshore Baptist Church.
May I share my interpretation of this verse which is very different from the way it is translated in your version?
I don’t believe Prov. 18:2 defines a “fool” as one who only takes pleasure in expressing opinions, as it is interpreted in your version. The way I undertand this verse, a fool does not care for understanding because understanding will expose his nakedness before God.
And Robert, my understanding of this verse is not a judgment against you in any way at all.
April
By: April on July 4, 2009
at 2:59 pm
Dear Robert,
Just two last words from me.
First, I never mentioned the name “Ed Moore” in my post, so your accusation of slander is false.
Second, I noticed in your last reply to me that you just had to tie me in with Harold Camping. I understand this emotional need you have very well because it’s been the main lesson for me since leaving the church and then Family Radio.
Folks like you who become shepherds over flocks can’t bear the thought of sheep no longer needing to be in your sheepfold – or at least SOME sheepfold. Some sheep who hear the Master’s voice are now “scattered” but in your mind it’s an impossibility that I am now freed from all men. So you have to tie me in with some man, any man, and his group. I have seen this tactic before, many times.
Sorry. I’ve been sufficiently freed from all of you. No further need for the “middleman”.
Ps 119:99 I have more understanding than all my teachers: for thy testimonies are my meditation.
The Word of God, and true.
April
By: April on July 1, 2009
at 6:52 am
Okay April, I will admit I am wrong in tying you to Harold Camping. For that I apologize. You did say in your last comment that you put Harold Camping in the same category with all other pastors. So yes it is true you are a true maverick in that sense. As for a the false accusation, you did say that, “The so called God- appointed pastor (at North Shore) would preach election one minute and works another minute.” Then you judged his motive- wanting to be a people pleaser. Let’s see, the so-called God appointed pastor of North Shore Baptist Church is Pastor Ed Moore. So yes you were speaking about Ed Moore unless you went there more than 20 years ago. And yes your did slander Ed. Ed is anything but a people pleaser. I sat under his ministry for years and he is a committed five point Calvinist, who is faithful to preach the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ week in and week out. In fact Ed preached on Family Radio several times before he and many others were kicked off the air by Harold Camping. Not that it matters to you anyway. So you did slander Ed Moore of preaching works, and of being a people pleaser, both of which is untrue. Any one reading this can simply listen to his sermons at http://www.ns-bc.org and judge for themselves.
Finally- God has appointed preachers and teachers to be spiritual guides to the us believers. Read Acts 826-40. And you will see where God uses teachers and preachers to assist in our learning of scripture. Also what do you do with Eph. 3:11 and Heb. 13:7,17
Prov. 18:2 “A fool takes no pleasure in understanding but only in expressing his own opinion”
By: Robert Gianserra on July 1, 2009
at 9:58 pm
Robert,
Regarding “Why abandon all the principles that you mentioned about who, what, where, when and how?” Just so we’re not out of context, I will clarify what I meant.
What I don’t hear Camping doing is putting scripture under the guise of an apostle in the Bible… saying “Paul said this because…” or “John said that…” I do hear the Churches doing this. I’m not defocussing the role that all the people of the Bible had in God’s plan. But instead emphasizing that it’s all God’s word, and it stops there. It’s not… God’s word, BUT, we must understand what he meant (note the lowercase he). The Bible is a spiritual book, it is God’s book. Goal for the elect: Salvation prior to judgment. So I ask, how does understanding an apostles frame of mind help us work towards this goal?
The Bible is Truth, including all the historical events. But in order to come to truth we must consider both literal and spiritual. You say there’s “no boundaries to what may come” with this approach. And I’d argue that this is not true, because the Bible has a finite number of words, given to us by God, to be compared against each other. I would agree however, that it can take a lifetime understand and apply this approach. And those out of a seminary perhaps suffer from pride under such Biblical rules. Interesting how Camping didn’t come from a seminary.
Cheers
By: John on June 30, 2009
at 3:06 am
Hi John Thanks again for your reply. I would never disagree that the bible is God’s word. It is divinely inspired and God-breathed. I like most Christians take the Word to be infallible and as absolute truth. God is the ultiamte author of scripture. But let me reiterate- God has used several human agents over the course of a 1000 years or more to complete the volume of scripture. With that said, God did speak through these human agents in real historical contexts. If we are going to know the real meaning of scripture we must read it within its original context. And then from there we can make an appropriate application to our own context. Even Harold Camping has admitted that from time to time. It is not as if the apostles and prophets were in a catatonic state when they wrote the bible and God took control of their hand and they were not aware of what they were writing. They knew exactly what they were writing and it was set within real contexts. When the book of Ephesians was written it was a real authentic letter from the Apostle Paul to the church at Ephesus. That is undeniable because it is written in scripture. Therefore when preachers say, “Paul said this, or John said that” you should not get bent our of shape. They are not denying God’s divine inspiration, but helping us believers understand full context. In fact even in the bible this is done For example-
Just in the four gospels there are 14 references to Isaiah the prophet. Just look at one from John’s gospel 12:37-40
Though he had done so many signs before them, they still did not believe in him, 38 so that the word spoken by the prophet Isaiah might be fulfilled:
“Lord, who has believed what he heard from us, and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?” Therefore they could not believe. For again Isaiah said,
“He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, lest they see with their eyes, and understand with their heart, and turn, and I would heal them.”
Now John wrote, “Isaiah said” Did that mean that he was not emphasizing that the book of Isaiah was God’s word? Could he have said, “The Word of God says” instead. It doesn’t matter because John was confident in relating the prophecy of Isaiah to Jesus because it was both God’s word and Issiah’s prophecy both the same.
Another on is in Acts 2:24-25 In Peter’s Sermon to the crowds in Jerusalem he references a Psalm as a proof text – “God raised him up, loosing the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to be held by it. 25 For David says concerning him, “‘I saw the Lord always before me, for he is at my right hand that I may not be shaken…”
But then if you look at Hebrews 3:7 The writer writes, “Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says…” and then quotes Psalm 95:7-11
God’s book is a spiritual book but not in the sense that it is some esoteric book that has a hidden meaning apart form the original authors intent. God had inspired the original authors to speak as the Holy Spirit carried them along. If we are going to be good students of the bible it behooves us to know this. You see when you ignore the context of a verse and the authors original internet then you can spin that intent any way you can. That is not being spiritual but proud.
I never attend seminary. I took some courses before, but am not in the least bit “brainwashed” But I don’t pride myself in that as if I am somehow more spiritual because I didn’t attend seminary. It just worked out hat way. I know professors and students in seminary who are really godly people. That is where Camping and others must be careful. The bible is very clear on passing judgment on others. To pass judgment on hoards of people without having met them is not good. By the way if seminarians disinterest you, think about this. John Calvin was saved, and never attended a seminary. He studied the bible on his own and wrote the Institutes of the Christian Religion after only being saved 3 years and never attended seminary. No one had a better grasp of scripture than he did. If Camping impresses you with his lack of a seminary degree, why not read Calvin’s Institutes and let me know what you think? I am sure you will be blessed.
By: Robert Gianserra on July 1, 2009
at 9:41 pm
15 June 2009
Dear Reader:
On Friday, 13 May 2011, at or soon after 7:54PM (Jerusalem Time)
1) The significance of 21 May 2011 is in the fact that according to the new moon calendar for that year it is the 7,000th year worldwide anniversary of the Noachian Flood of 17 Iyar/Ziv(or the 2nd month) 4990BC.
2) And since it is the 7,000th year anniversary of the flood does the bible tell us the time? In other words, did the flood happen at daytime or a nighttime and (a reasonable question) should the precise day of the judgment day of May 2011 likely occur at daytime or nighttime?
3) If the flood occurred at night vs. the day, does the bible ever indicate that super biblical events have occurred at nighttime? If so, which ones? To name but just a few, lets look in the bible and see what could be found:
A) One such super biblical event was the night (or the nightfall) of the Jewish/biblical Passover day, 14 Aviv/Nisan in Egypt (Egypt shares the same Time Zone with Israel)
when the judgment fell on the Egyptian firstborns, but the Jews were unharmed, because they were, so to speak, covered by blood, and that nighttime was the beginning (or at the beginning) of the Jewish Friday and in accordance with the modern day calendar, the night of Thursday. But are there any other additional important clues? Well, it turns out that the answer is an absolute Yes!
B) How about the biblical/Jewish day of Pentecost of 33AD. Yes, and this super biblical event also occurred at nightfall (or nighttime) Jerusalem time. So, in Act2:1,2 it reads “And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.” This shows that this super biblical event occurred at nightfall, because it occurred at the time when the day of Pentecost came – it was the nightfall of biblical Saturday Jerusalem time (or the evening of our modern Friday), the 50th day. The indication that while this happened they were in one house makes sense, because it was nighttime and they like most people sensibly seek shelter at night.
It is then no doubt that the citizens of their neighborhood “were all amazed”(Act2:7,12), and so they were naturally amazed because it was already the Jewish Saturday – the day of religious rest – and no doubt special quiet of the Sabbath night as oppose to a common work weekdays. The neighborhood citizens should have expected their new Christian neighbors to be on their best behavior.
Then to reimburse that this event indeed occurred on Friday night (or the beginning of the biblical/Jewish Saturday) Jerusalem time, Peter says in Act2:15 “it is but the third hour of the day” – thus if referenced by our modern calendar for 2009, it is seen that the end of the civil twilight/dusk/ or nightfall (which describes the same natural phenomenon) was 8:00PM (Jerusalem time), but for 2011 it is predicted to occur a little short of that at 7:59PM (Jerusalem time) in Jerusalem. Henceforth, by a rough estimate of our modern daily Jewish calendar, the 3rd hour of the day meant the 3rd hour of the biblical Saturday (Sabbath). And counting 3 hours from 8:00PM clock means that Peter said this around our modern 10:00PM clock, or roughly some time after 10:00PM. But wait there is more, in Act2:20 as if to further indicate that it was indeed nighttime, Peter quotes something similar to Isa13:10, Joel3:15, Mt24:29, Mk13:24, but partially word for word from Joel 2:31, “The sun shall be turned into darkness” – so, lets ask ourselves when does the sun customarily turn to darkness?(Eph4:26 validates the clear significance of the dusk (or, so to speak, the new beginning, new day) in connection to the super biblical events even further: “let not the sun go down upon your wrath”).
Furthermore, bible does indicate that super biblical events tend to occur at “the selfsame day”(Ex12:41) – and so it stands to reason that when Christ died it was the 14th day, but not the 15th, and 50 days later (to “the selfsame day” Jerusalem time) the Holy Spirit descended – so, even though (Act 2:27,31) Christ’s soul left his body on the cross, his physical body was interned in the tomb right before the coming of Friday night (biblical Saturday), and so it was from one evening to the other!
3 days and 3 nights prophesy by our modern calendar:
Th(eve1) Fri(day) Fri(eve2) Sat(day) Sat(eve3) produces 3 nights exactly. And adding a 2nd artificial Friday (the fall of the 3 hours of darkness), produces 3 complete days and nights:
Th(eve1) Fri(day1) Fri(eve2) 2ndFri(day2) 2ndFri(eve3) Sat(day3)
Thus, when Act1:2 is examined in this light word choice and language make perfect sense.
And so as if to even further reimburse the point that it was at nighttime Jerusalem time that the Holy Spirit came in Act3:1, bible says that “Now Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer, being the ninth hour” which seems to have been a Saturday (or the 50th day) daytime after the eventful night.
C) Another such nighttime event was obviously the birth of Christ in 7BC – this super biblical event is indicated to have occurred also at nighttime Israel time (and Jerusalem time), and the evidence for that is of course the “star,” a night occurrence, as well as other indicators.
D) Lastly, lets look at the events at hand – the Noachian flood which also seems to have taken place at the end of the 16 Ziv, or the beginning of the 17 Ziv (Jerusalem time if Act1:4, Christ’s burial and the Pentecost are considered to have precisely occurred on “the selfsame day” of each other). And here are the biblical evidence: in Gn7:10 “And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.” The key word in this statement is after, which indicates that the flood didn’t come before the 7 days (a whole week) were over, but interestingly enough, the biblical (Jewish) day does not start until the end of the civil twilight, dusk, or nightfall. So, this means that the after must have occurred at nightfall. And in Gn7:4 it is written “For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth”… Gn7:10 “And…after seven days…the waters of the flood were upon the earth” – Therefore, from dusk on Tue, 9 Ziv 4990BC our modern day calendar equivalent (or the biblical/Jewish, beginning of Wed 10 Ziv 4990BC) to dusk on the 16 Ziv 4990BC our modern day calendar equivalent (or the biblical/Jewish, beginning of Wed, 17 Ziv 4990BC) there were exactly 7 week days to “the selfsame day.”
From the aforementioned investigation it is conclusive that a super biblical event can occur at nighttime, because the Egyptian judgment, Christ’s birth, Pentecost day pouring of the Holy Spirit and the Noachian flood all took place at nighttime, or the beginning of the biblical (Jewish) days, and use Jerusalem, Israel time as a reference, “commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father”(Act1:4,12, which is the very literal and compelling prediction of the occurrence of the future super biblical events with the obvious reference to Jerusalem time). Yet, even though, in Act1:4 and12 the bible obviously uses Jerusalem as a time reference for the occurrence of super biblical events, it is clearly not the only time that the bible elegantly links specific events to the constraints of Jerusalem time:
Mt16:21,20:17,18,21:1,10/Mk10:32,33,11:1,11,15,27,15:41/Lk2:22,25,41,43,45,9:31,51,53, 13:22,33,17:11,18:31,19:11,28,41,23:7,24:18,33,47,52/Jn2:13,23,4:45,5:1,2,10:22,11:18, 55,12:12
And so since the Noachian flood occurred at the end of the civil twilight, dusk, nightfall of the 17 Ziv (our modern equivalent of 16 Ziv 4990BC) it means that 7,000 years exactly to “the selfsame day” must be the 7:59PM, 20 May 2011 (Jerusalem time) – which is the 7,000 year anniversary of the beginning of the flood.
4) Since it has been established that not only can we be told the exact day, but also the approximate time of the beginning of the official day of judgment for the year 2011, lets look at the biblical evidence to see if there are any more clues.
Firstly, lets look at Gn6:3 “his days shall be an 120 years,” which shows a definite link between days and years, and thus reaffirms that important super biblical events do occur to “the selfsame day” of each other. But looking further in Gn6:7 “I will destroy man whom I have created…both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air”…Gn6:13 “The end of all flesh is come…I will destroy them with the earth”…Gn6:17 ”I…destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die”…Gn7:4 “every living substance that I have made will I destroy.” From these statements alone it is obvious that the bible is predicting not only the flood, but also the 2011 day of judgment – For we should ask ourselves a seemingly naïve question – Did the Lord indeed destroy everything He created back then in 4990BC? – And the obvious answer is no and we and all that surrounds us are that proof. While 2Pt3:7 provides a reasonable explanation, “the heavens and the earth, which are now…are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment.” In other words, the 7 day prophesy is yet to be fulfilled, for it is seen in 2Pt3:8. Yet, as if to reaffirm the final outcome bible speaks of the soon approaching event as if it has already happened, in Gn7:21 ”all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing…and every man”…Gn7:23 “every living substance was destroyed…both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven…were destroyed.”
From the aforementioned it is definitely seen that 17 Ziv for the year 2011 is on or soon after the dusk of 20 May (or the equivalent of the biblical/Jewish beginning of 21 May 2011), and is the important date of the 7,000 year anniversary of the flood, which according to the biblical (Jewish) calendar falls on the beginning of the 17 Ziv for 2011, or Fri, 16 Ziv 2011 at or soon after 7:59PM – end of the civil twilight, dusk, nightfall, Jerusalem time. But is Friday, 20 May 2011, at or soon after 7:59PM Jerusalem time the final calculation, or are we told even more. Lets look toward Gn7:4 “For yet seven days…and every living substance that I have made will I destroy.” So, if we apply the equation of 2Pt3:8 we get exactly 7,000 years, and the 2Pt3:8 clearly applies to only this particular statement of Gn7:4, where the 7 day warning is clearly issued to all currently existing people. And sure enough, if we subtract exactly 7 days from Friday, 20 May 2011(dusk time) we see that the official day of judgment has to be on or soon after Friday, 13 May 2011, 7:54PM Jerusalem time. And significantly enough this date also happens to be exactly (to “the selfsame day”) 7,000th year anniversary of the nightfall of Tue, 9 Ziv 4990BC (or the beginning of Wed, 10 Ziv 4990BC biblical/Jewish calendar) of the pertinent warning issued to Noah and humanity.
Lastly, if we were but to look even a little bit further at the biblical information, we might not only be told (to “the selfsame day”) the near precise time of such super biblical events as Noachian flood and the day of judgment, and the 11,013th BC year of creation, but also the month, the day, and maybe even the implicit time of creation!
By: viewer on June 29, 2009
at 9:50 pm
I was going to delete you article because I did not think anyone would have the time to read it or if they did they would be utterly confused. But because you took the time to write this (and didn’t copy and paste it from Family Radio’s website) I decided to approve it. But your comment is evidence of how people like yourself and Harold Camping have misused the bible. Instead of taking the pure message of the gospel from the bible, you have used it as a secret code book, for super spiritual people to figure out the day and time of Christ’s return. By the way, just because you have 100 bible references in your statement doesn’t make it valid.
I will pray for you my friend. Get back to the basics of the gospel!
By: Robert Gianserra on July 1, 2009
at 9:04 pm
Very Interesting, viewer. However, toward the end of your post you stated that the Day of Judgement will actually “begin” to take place on May 13th at dusk(7:54 PM Jerusalem Time) which coincides with the “beginning” of the Noachian Flood. Am I correct in what you stated?
Or will there also be a 7 Day warning issued by God to Humanity on May 13th to prepare for the Day of Judgement at dusk (7:59 PM Jerusalem Time) on May 20th, 2011?
By: Darryl T on July 3, 2009
at 12:48 pm
The internet can misguide so many Christians, especially those who use it in a way to promote the Church, rather than Christ, because they are so attached to it and absorbed by it.
Still, sin is rarely addressed in the church. Sin is probably the least preached subject in the church, right up there next to Jesus’ Second Coming. Why is that? When I was attending church, I would always ask “why” this was??? The response I received was that people want to “feel good” when they come to church. We don’t want to “offend” anyone so that they’ll keep coming back. Hmmm. And I thought God brought the people into Church.
In my area, apostate churches dominate the landscape. They endorse gay clergy, women pastors and the constant promotion of Speaking in Tongues. Sin and the Second Coming, however, are rarely subjects which are preached from the pulpit, but are lightly reserved for “small groups” and/or Bible Study.
Which leads me into the OP and replies which followed from the author of this website. You’ll notice, Scripture is rarely quoted from him (except Matthew 24: 36) when debunking Mr. Camping. And then he makes unjust assumptions of a poster as to his Faith in Christ simply because he disagrees with his assertions on Harold Camping and what he is teaching. If someone has a “positive view” on what Harold Camping says, what follows is a personal attack on “someone” of whom he doesn’t even know (which includes Harold Camping). This is in part because he fails to “Harmonize” the Scripture “Spiritually”, as Harold Camping teaches, but he would rather follow “books of men” which teach Hermanutics, history and that the Bible is just a bunchn of stories.
But Mr. Camping doesn’t require anyone to defend him. It goes with the territory of having the Scripture “Scoffed At”. (2 Peter 3: 3-5)
I’ve read most of the negative websites regarding Mr. Camping, while at the same time I listen to what Mr. Camping says over the radio. These websites all say the same thing (or lack thereof). The authors of these websites, such as Robert, continually misquote Harold Camping in their attempt to debunk what he says. They even call him names. I find this so sad. This is so typical of the “church-absorbed” Christian. It’s all about the church, the church, the church….but yet, anyone who says they may believe what Harold Camping is saying is “rebuked” for they are not devoting themselves as they ought to Christ. This sounds to me like a tactic of Satan to make Christians weak and to get Christians focused on the CHURCH, rather than to be embolden on Christ and His Second Coming.
Also, you’ll notice the author would rather have you read “books of men” rather than the Bible (God’s Word). Whereas, Harold Camping directs you to the Bible and only the Bible. You’ll also notice that the author refers to Biblical history as “contextual”, rather than “Spiritual”. That’s a “sign” that the author is absorbed in the Church and won’t look at anything regarding the short-comings of the Church itself. It’s just a recipe for excuses, excuses, excuses. Like I said before, if you want to debunk Harold Camping, “clean up” the churches.
No Scripture or Prophecy is given to any Private Interpretation (2 Peter 1: 20-21), however the author of this website tells us that there are not many truths in the Bible and we must listen to what is taught by the Pastors. Sorry….but that is a Private Interpretation, especially when you look at Ephesians 4:11 where Pastors are LAST on the list when it comes to “Perfecting the Saints”.
It’s time to come out of the Churches because they are laden with confusion. Study the Bible on your own and let the Holy Spirit guide you. Give your Offerings to whom you believe God wants you to give it to; that will promote God’s Work and Kingdom.
Mr. Camping has NEVER told anyone to sell their homes and possessions. In fact, I was listening to the Open Forum and someone called and asked that very question. He told that person to pray about it and make that decision for themselves.
No where in Scripture does God say He’s finished with the Churches??? I would suggest the author read Revelation chapters 2 and 3 whereby God climaxes with saying He will “Spue Them out of His Mouth”. In these verses, I’m pretty sure God is not playing anymore games with the churches.
Author: Please be accurate with what you say. You obviously have NOT read what Harold Camping wrote or heard what he teaches. Like I began my response….the Internet can be used to misguide Christians. The Bible should be what you use to debunk Harold Camping (along with cleaning up the Church). If you’re only going to read what is on the Internet or in the books of men, and not the Bible, then you’ll be convinced that the Churches are always right, even when they refuse to clean up their own sin (or even just to talk about it).
By: Darryl T on June 29, 2009
at 1:48 am
Daryll Thank you once a gain for entering into a discussion. Perhaps my tone was bit uncharitable in my previous writings, and with that I confess that I may have been mean spirited. In any case I am unapologetic for my positions. That is because they are not simply men’s opinions but the teaching of God’s word. Just because I do not have a scripture reference after every sentence of mine does not mean I am not taking a biblical position. In fact as Is aid I am going to write new articles with biblical refutations of Harold Camping’s teachings.
Just a few notes- You accuse me of “promoting the church instead of Christ”. That is a false accusation and illogical. That is because Christ cannot be separated from his church. The church exists for one purpose to glorify Christ (Eph 3:21 to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, forever and ever. Amen.”) Christ is inseparable from his people. When the apostle Paul was persecuting the local churches in Jerusalem, Christ appeared to him and said, “Saul Saul why doest thou persecute me?” Acts 9:4 The church is the vehicle that Christ has used to preach the gospel and thus bring the praises of all nations to himself. Where Camping has errs is by condemning all local churches with a broad stoke. No serious believer will deny that there are many apostate local churches, but to condemn all of them? That is a broad condemnation especially if one hasn’t attended every local church. You reference Rev. 2-3 in regards to how Christ felt towards the churches listed there. These were 7 local churches in Asia Minor that mirror many churches throughout church history. The reality is there are many apostate local churches. But there are also local churches faithful to Christ and his word. Even if you take the view that the seven churches represents 7 ages in church history, there are many problems. How do you know exactly what part of history each church falls into? This takes great liberty to do and then claim it was secretly revealed by the spirit? Based on the assumption that we are living in the “age of Laodicea” There is still room for repentance. Jesus said, “Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent.” Rev. 3:19. This is evidence that there is still hope for the church in Laodicea to be restored. Obviously The church of Laodicea in John the Apostle’s time fell away and was never restored. There are however many local churches today that have remained enormously faithful to Christ and his glory. Just because you haven’t attended one in your limited experience does not mean there are none.
But how do you define faithfulness to Christ? According to Harold Camping, if Christians are not reading their bibles in light of “new information” revealed through his teachings they are not faithful to Christ. While you accuse me of being enslaved to the teaching of men, you are bound to the exclusive claims of Camping. When you said, “Mr. Camping doesn’t require anyone to defend him. It goes with the territory of having the Scripture “Scoffed At”. (2 Peter 3: 3-5)” You make a bold statement. What you are saying essentially is that Mr. Camping’s teachings are as authoritative as the bible itself and therefore require no defense. To “scoff” at Camping is to scoff at scripture itself. This is the same claim that the Roman Pontiff makes. There is a large separation from Harold Camping’s teachings and Holy Scripture. He does not have an exclusive interpretation and claim to the bible (2 Peter 1: 20-21). It belongs to the Lord. And Mr. Camping, like all bible teachers, are open to criticism and scrutiny and must defend their positions. IF Camping is serious and believes his claims are as authentic as he says, why will he refuse to engage in any discussion with any other believers who disagree with him? His response is “To call open forum” That is the most arrogant thing I ever heard of. At Mr. Camping’s infamous cue of “Excuse me!”, his producer censors any caller who is challenging Mr. Camping’s claims. That is downright deceitful. I have called Open Forum more than once and have been silenced more than once. Here is a challenge to Mr. Camping- Come out of the four walls of the studio of Family Radio and have an open discussion with those who disagree with you. IF he is so sure he is right, then he has nothing to fear. To just condemn all bible teachers as being”unenlightened” and “in rebellion” as an excuse to not engage is a cop out. The Apostle Peter told us, 1 Peter 3:15 “always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect, having a good conscience, so that, when you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ may be put to shame.”
Finally, If you feel that “men” pervert the scriptures through their own understanding, is Camping exempt from that category? Why do away with all bible teachers except him? Why not be consistent and listen to No-one? As for slandering me by saying I would rather have people read the books of men than the bible is a downright lie. I have been pastoring for 5 years and never in my life made such a statement. Do your research as well my friend. Furthermore men like, John MacArthur, RC Sproul, Mark Dever, John Piper, and Steven Lawson would never ever say such a thing either. That is absolutely blasphemous. Think of it this way. Let’s say Camping is wrong. Let’s say you and others have been duped by him. In less than two years we will all find out. Then what? I do hope that many would repent of slandering so many faithful Christians. Don’t base your views on the limited experience of attending few bad churches. And do not base your views on the teaching of ONE MAN.
By: Robert Gianserra on June 29, 2009
at 11:14 am
Not that it makes a difference, but I’m coming from an agnostic background – under the category of “if there is a God, he will let me know”. Camping debates as I see/hear them, is predominantly among Christians. I’ve attended church with family/friends on occasions growing up. But the Church never made sense. I saw no humility.
After randomly coming across Camping’s Open Forum, it just-made-sense after I heard him a few times. If we are to read the Bible as the Word of God spiritually, there’s no need for academic toiling about “who” wrote this book and what this prophet meant, or “when” was that written, in order to understand “why” it was written. The “leap” of faith stops at believing His word(s), as infallible Truth, comparing scripture with scripture in order to understand what the whole Bible has to say about ANY topic. What church teaches that I wonder? It’s so beautifully simplistic in nature, and yet it can take a lifetime to practice and apply. How do you tackle topics such as salvation and Christs second coming? Well, it looks like Camping has got a head start.
Do I believe Christ is returning May 21st 2011? I believe Harold Camping believes he will. For now, I’m seeking “His” advice… as I have dusted off a KJV Bible that has sat dormant on my bookshelf for literally 20 years… praying for wisdom while I read it nightly, and compare scripture with scripture using E-Sword.
And if Christ doesn’t return on May 21st, 2011, all Harold Camping has done is lead me into the Bible to find Truth. So there I say, what has he done wrong Robert?
Is he destroying the “typical” Christians life by asking them to leave their Church and read their Bible as the infallible word of God? Never mind the theologian’s pride and Church pastor’s paycheck. And wrt Family Raido’s literature, from what I see it does nothing but point to scriptures. Something I hope your next blog does, because it’s been nothing but babble like I’ve done.
Cheers.
By: John on June 28, 2009
at 3:06 am
Dear John
Thank you for your response. I am thankful for one thing- You are reading your bible. If you are agnostic, you are betraying yourself reading scripture if you do believe it is the inspired Word of God. Why abandon all the principles that you mentioned about who, what, where, when and how? Yes the bible is God’s word, but he used human agents in real historical contexts that have real contextual meanings. This is not so much academic, but a logical approach to reading the bible. To ignore the context and meaning of the original writers is to ignore God’s intended purpose for the text. As I have said in response to Mr. Camping, when one abandons the principles of interpretation, there are no parameters and boundaries to what may come. Everyone will arrive at some different place and all claim that they have been led and taught buy the Holy Spirit. That cannot be possible. The Holy Spirit is not the author of confusion, but of order. There are not many truths of the bible, but one real absolute truth that emanates from God who is truth, and exists outside of ourselves. We must dilgently search the srciptures until we can affrim the truths of scripture that are taught by our pastors.
As for what church seeks to see what the bible says on anyt given subject, there are many. Just because you havn’t foudn one yet does not mean that one doesn’t exist in all the world. There are many churches that have remained faithful to the authority of scripture and have been pure, while many mainstream denominations have gone apostate. Do your research before agreeing with Camping to a mass condemnation of all churches. I cannot deny that Family Radio has been as solid bible teaching ministry for years. But what happened to Gabriel Ortero? What happened to the Bible Study Hour, with JM Boice? Gone- because they will not agree with Mr. Camping.
Where Camping has gone wrong is in his predictions and the end of the church age and is more than you think. As for 94 and 2011, there have been and will be people who will sell their homes, quit their jobs, and suffer financial loss and an emotional crises. Camping was faced with that in 94 when alot of faithful Family Radio listeners ruined their lives. He callously reminded everyone that there was a question mark at the end, and never apologized or repented. That is downright wicked. And it will happen again in 2011. As for how he ruins the lives of Christians by teaching the end of the church age? I plan to give a detailed answer with biblical support in the next few days. But for now, it is as simple as teaching somethign that is not in scripture. NO WHERE is there any EXPLICIT teaching saying the church age will end before Jesus returns. In the meantime, I would ask if you could listen to two sermons I preached not too long ago that will give biblical answers to the issues we are discussing.
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=42908929318,
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=528081326412
By: Robert Gianserra on June 28, 2009
at 10:53 pm
I’ve read your article and I must say, you did a magnificant job of “slandering” Harold Camping by your “twisting” of the Holy Scripture.
First, I noticed you, yourself, quote Scripture right after you accuse Harold Camping of “twisting” the Scripture. 2 Timothy 2:18 is being twisted by you! I’m sure if you were “honest” about that verse, you’d see that it “specifically” had to do with 2 people, Hymenaeus and Philetus, who taught that the resurrection had already past. You should really try to be more “careful and thoughtful” when you quote God’s Word, especially when you condemn someone as a heretic. I, myself, would be fearful of doing this seeing that I will stand before God someday and I would have to answer to God for using His Word in such an “out-of-context” manner.
Secondly, you accuse Harld Camping of approaching the Scripture Hermeneutically. Harold Camping teaches that we are to “reject” the Hermeneutic way of understanding Scripture. We are to approach the Scripture by Harmonizng Scripture…word to word…verse to verse. No wonder the local church is in such a state of confusion and apostasy. Perhaps you should do some actual “research” before you condemn what you don’t know or understand.
Thirdly, you falsely accuse Harold Camping of saying that the world will end in 1994. Have you read what he wrote? Apparently not. Otherwise, you would have read that he put a Question (?) Mark to what was written; meaning that he wasn’t sure however all the evidence in the Bible was pointing toward the “End”. Apparently, to you, 2 Timothy 3:16 where God says that Scripture is to be for “correction” doesn’t apply to Harold Camping. He doesn’t deserve that priviledge. But the local church? Infallable? RRRRIIIIGGHHTT!
Fourthly, you sighted 1 Timothy 3:15 as being the “pillar and ground of Truth”. Well, maybe that was true in the past, however, the local church is FAR from being that “pillar and ground of Truth” today. I was saved in 1983. My Salvation was very very real. Through the years, I became very involved in the local church. Eventually, I became a Trustee and Bible teacher. Never gain. Believe me, I witnessed the local church deteriorate to the point of “out-right evil” toward it’s parishoners. In my opinion, the local church is so corrupted, no wonder the “world” writes the church off in the name of hypocrisy. I find it utterly amazing that you don’t address this corruption and “worldliness” within the local church, but rather, you attack Harold Camping.
It’s about time that someone is saying what Harold Camping says about the local church in relation to the “End of Days”. What he says ties in “perfectly” into the Last Days of 2 Timothy 3 (the whole chapter and not just the first few verses). Moreover, 2 Peter 3 (again, the whole chapter and not just the first few verses) speaks of “scoffers” which will come in the Last Days who walk after their own “lusts”.
Perhaps you should “honestly examine” the local church (through the lens of Scripture) in all of it’s hypocrisy and “worldliness”, instead of “bashing” Harold Camping. It would be wise for Christians to “clean-up” the FORMER “pillar and ground of Truth” (the local church) to prove Harold Camping wrong. But sadly, all the leaders and “luke-warm” Christians in these churches will just continue to make excuses for themselves.
I have left the local church and I believe what is being taught on Family Radio. The evidence is quite clear, not only from what is written in the Bible, but what is also going on throughout the world….and not-to-mention….. the sad state of affairs taking place within the local churches.
Do some research before you write such attacks.
By: Darryl T on June 25, 2009
at 1:40 am
Dear Sir
Your response is spoken like a true Campingite. Your unwavering loyalty to Mr. Camping has blinded you to the truth, and has made you hostile to anyone who would seek to disprove your leader. Your loyalty should be like that for Jesus Christ, not man. As for your counter-charges
If I am the one who must be fearful on the day of judgment for slandering Harold Camping, there is a greater fear for you and your dear leader for slandering every church, bible teacher and seminary in the world that does not agree with your view of scripture. That is a BROAD, FAR REACHING AND MASS CONDEMNATION. Judgment day will come on May 21, 2011. But not for the church, for Family Radio and Harold Camping. What will you do when May 21, 2011 comes and goes like an ordinary day? Will you still remain loyal to Mr. Camping in whatever cockamamie excuse he gives? Or will you repent and ask God for forgiveness?
Also- for your information, I am very plain in my preaching and in other articles on the state of the church. You should read my article on the Laodicean Epidemic in the archives. I am sorry you had a bad experience in the local church. So do many others. I do not deny that there are many apostate churches in the world. Neither to any sincere Christians deny that. However with that said, there are still many faithful churches that are part of God’s remnant. To pronounce judgment on every local church in the world is a bold and blasphemous statement. I would be more afraid to stand by that statement than to stand by the statement that Harold Camping is teaching false doctrine. One man vs. all of Christianity. By the way, The Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals which is committed to sound biblical doctrine asked to have a discussion with Mr. Camping and he refused. I know elder bodies that flew to Oakland CA. and wanted to have a genuine discussion with Mr. Camping, and he turned them away without even giving them a chance. IS that humble? Is that sincere? If Camping was so sure of his teaching, why would he not meet with other fellow Christians? Maybe he could convince them that he is right?
As for my research, I am not writing a book just an article. If you would want to read a well detailed examination of Camping’s teachings, Would you consider reading, “Should we Leave Our Churches” by Ligon Duncan and Mark Talbot or “Dangerous Airwaves: Harold Camping Refuted and Christ’s Church Defended” By: James White. If you are open minded enough you may actually read it. However in my next article I will examine each teaching with a biblical response. Then you will have the chance to refute me.
By the way 2 Timothy 2:18 does refer to Hymenaeus and Philetus who taught falsely regarding the resurrection. The result of their false teaching was causing the “shipwrecking of the faith” of some believers. That is the consequence of ALL false teaching. By the way, Hymenaeus and Philetus were Gnostic and claimed to receive secret knowledge or “new information” about the bible as well. When ever anyone in church history has introduced new and strange doctrine, it must always be tested against the pure doctrine of scripture. Your dear leader will be proven wrong one day, just like William Miller, and Charles Taze Russel. They both predicted the second coming and were both wrong. Don’t they all remember what scripture says, Matt. 24:36 “But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only. ” More to come….
By: Robert Gianserra on June 25, 2009
at 9:34 am